webmasterbeta
New Member
A company I used to work with has used acunett for about 2 years. Recently the company wanted to cancel the account but there has been some confusion about a charge. I was wondering if some of you could weigh in.
Basically in October my company changed ownership and was initially going to keep acunett. I wrote them an email saying I wanted to change the credit card (the old one was no longer associated with the company) and they were very friendly obliged.
However, in the next day or two my company changed their mind and decided to switch server companies. In the confusion of an ownership change and some people getting hired and let go, no one let acunett know that we no longer needed their services.
Acunett sent 3 suspension notices, however the email was one that was no longer associated with the company (not their error). On November 1st they sent an email saying:
"We still have not received payment from you.
If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate the server."
On the 5th (or thereabouts) of November the old email was checked and I realized no one had let acunett know we no longer needed their services, but I saw the termination email from the 1st and figured that was fine.
Just a few days ago Acunett billed the original credit card again for a month of service. Apparently the server was up the entire time and we were being charged.
Now I totally understand that there was a huge error not on the part of my company not to let acunett know we wished to cancel, but I'm not sure about how I feel being charged after it was explicitly stated that the account was terminated.
Opinions? Am I being obtuse about this?
Here are the final three emails, first from me,then acunett, then me again:
---me---
On Nov 1st I got an email from Ronny Fang saying:
"xxxx,
We still have not received payment from you.
If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate
the server.
Best Regards,
Ronny Fang,
AcuNett, LLC | Management
"
This was fine as I no longer need the server. However, I was again billed for the server below.
In addittion, on October 20th I submitted a ticket asking that my xxx card on file not be billed (xxx) and tried to remove it from
the billing software (I thought that was successful but I guess I made a mistake with that).
I do not need this server anymore and, since i was told the account was suspended I assumed I would not again be charged, especially not to a card I specifically asked to not be used. I would like that charge to be voided please.
-----------------
--acunett-------
That is not possible. You mentioned on October 20th you would use a different card to pay. Thus, we voided the charge. Out of our good will we waited for you to update you card and pay for the server. You never did. We contacted you on several occasions, but you chose to ignore us instead of informing us to cancel the server. Your account became delinquent all the while we were being billed by our upstream providers. Bottom line is, you
never cancelled. Instead you falsely led us to believe you were going to pay for the server. Your server was finally shut off yesterday after being overdue for over 1 month. We have all records showing the communication between you and us, and also evidence that the server has been online for this duration.
". I am going to change the card but do not have the information available right now. I also can't find a way to get the old card out of the system. I will update Monday the 22nd (invoice is due the 25th). Thank you"
The only thing I can do for you, is to refund 100% of the management portion, and 20% of the monthly fee of the server itself.
You never cancelled your backup account but I have done so for you so that you do not get rebilled again.[/quote]
-----------------
--me---------
I apologize for the confusion. Initially we were going to switch
credit cards due to an ownership change, but the new ownership decided to go with another server company that they had worked with in the past. In the confusion of the change I now realize no one sent a communication to you saying to cancel the server. However when we saw the final suspend notice we assumed that since the account had lapsed we would not be billed (ie you were canceling the account) as was stated in the email dated Nov 1st ("If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate the server.").
The reason the suspension notices were not responded to is that this email address is no longer used for the company. By the time this account was checked the suspension notices were already delivered along with the email quoted above saying the server would be terminated.
I understand the confusion and I do apologize for someone not
explicitly that the account should be canceled. However, I am not sure how I feel about someone saying the server will be terminated then billing for that service again a few weeks later. I appreciate your offer to refund the management portion and 20% of the monthly fee. To determine if this is fair I may post this on webhostingtalk.com. (Keep in mind that is not supposed to be
threatening. I am genuinely curious about the situation and would like input from others with more experience. Our company has been satisfied with your service.)
------------The client has been quite courteous to us with his further correspondence. I had felt at the time that our good-will had been abused, however judging from this explanation it appears that it was not intentional.Just to add to the situation. The client's card had already been charged for the next month of service. When we received the request to bill a different card, we issued a refund for that charge, and waited for the client to pay with a different card.Follow up emails were sent to the client asking for either an update or an explanation. Meanwhile, our billing system also sent out automated suspension warnings. (these are not linked to actually suspending the server)Finally, a week after his due date we sent a final warning as the client posted above. I do admit this message "If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate the server." is somewhat ambiguous. It was not clearly imparted whether we would terminate the server immediately, or at the billing cycle.Take into consideration that this server had already been a week delinquent at that point, and we had been charged by our providers for this next month. We really could do nothing at that point, and leaving the server up until the end of the month and hoping that the client will pay would not cost us any more than we had already lost.At this point, we re-charged the original invoice for the delinquent fee (as opposed to sending this to collection, etc). I feel there is no doubt we did have a right to do that, since no cancellation request was ever submitted. This would just be like charging any other client every month.I will leave it up to WHT to decide whether in this situation a full 100% refund for services is appropriate, or whether a full 100% refund for management services + 20% refund for the dedicated server is appropriate in this situation.As this client has been a loyal customer for 2 years, I personally do not mind either which way. However, please do base your decision on principal, and not some other reason. (such as business bad, customer good
)Just to add to the situation. The client's card had already been charged for the next month of service. When we received the request to bill a different card, we issued a refund for that charge, and waited for the client to pay with a different card.---------------I'm not sure if that is 100% correct but it may be. I believe I made the request when the invoice was received but before the credit card was actually charged. I will have to check and see if that is the case or not though.Either way it doesn't really affect the issue at hand I suppose.---"Follow up emails were sent to the client asking for either an update or an explanation."---I think this might be misleading. There were suspension notices but at no time did anyone ask for an explanation. An update was asked for in the first email and that is of course my mistake.Actually I want to double check both on the above to make sure I am being accurate.In Regards to the charge:01594646593 9238 Voided 20-Oct-2007 21:48:06 Sxxx, Cxxx A XXXXxxxx USD 0.00 21-Oct-2007 17:38:41 USD 0.00I worded my statement incorrectly. Your card was indeed charged by authorize.net, but I went in an voided it before the charge settled.--------------In regards to being "misleading":What you are referring to are the "Meanwhile, our billing system also sent out automated suspension warnings. " that I mentioned.The automated suspension warnings are not the same as the email messages that I personally sent to you. I recall the situation quite clearly. It was a weekend when I answered your email. You told us that on monday you would pay with a different card. Monday came and went and you did not pay. I also remember emailing you a reminder that you could login at any time to pay the invoice in case you had forgotten.Yes, the card was billed and you voided the card, I was just saying I think I sent in the ticket/email asking for the card to be changed before the charge went through. Either way you did refund the charge promptly.The misleading part was just that you said follow up emails were sent asking for either an update or an explanation.In response to the ticket I opened about the card you said "It just billed it today. I have voided the charge and reissued the invoice. When you install the new card, make sur eyou pay manually by going to My Finances -> invoices" in an email dated on the 20th (a saturday). The next email I got from you was on the 1st telling me the server was to be terminated. I also remember the situation quite clearly and have all the email correspondences in my gmail account. In other words, I don't see where you asked for an explanation or update about the situation. The only reason that is pertinent is that if, when i had checked the email and seen the suspension notices, I had also seen an email sent by you asking for an explanation, I would have written an email right then telling you the situation. I just thought since you said the server would be terminated that it was a done deal. It didn't seem appropriate to write an email at that point apologizing for not paying the old invoice."I also remember emailing you a reminder that you could login at any time to pay the invoice in case you had forgotten."I do not remember this and I have thoroughly looked through the gmail account for such an email. Unless you sent this from a different email account that I have missed I think you are mistaken.EDIT -- I was wrong, I did get an email on the 23rd saying "Just to let you know the amex charge was voided, so you can login to pay the invoice with a different card at any time."
Basically in October my company changed ownership and was initially going to keep acunett. I wrote them an email saying I wanted to change the credit card (the old one was no longer associated with the company) and they were very friendly obliged.
However, in the next day or two my company changed their mind and decided to switch server companies. In the confusion of an ownership change and some people getting hired and let go, no one let acunett know that we no longer needed their services.
Acunett sent 3 suspension notices, however the email was one that was no longer associated with the company (not their error). On November 1st they sent an email saying:
"We still have not received payment from you.
If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate the server."
On the 5th (or thereabouts) of November the old email was checked and I realized no one had let acunett know we no longer needed their services, but I saw the termination email from the 1st and figured that was fine.
Just a few days ago Acunett billed the original credit card again for a month of service. Apparently the server was up the entire time and we were being charged.
Now I totally understand that there was a huge error not on the part of my company not to let acunett know we wished to cancel, but I'm not sure about how I feel being charged after it was explicitly stated that the account was terminated.
Opinions? Am I being obtuse about this?
Here are the final three emails, first from me,then acunett, then me again:
---me---
On Nov 1st I got an email from Ronny Fang saying:
"xxxx,
We still have not received payment from you.
If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate
the server.
Best Regards,
Ronny Fang,
AcuNett, LLC | Management
"
This was fine as I no longer need the server. However, I was again billed for the server below.
In addittion, on October 20th I submitted a ticket asking that my xxx card on file not be billed (xxx) and tried to remove it from
the billing software (I thought that was successful but I guess I made a mistake with that).
I do not need this server anymore and, since i was told the account was suspended I assumed I would not again be charged, especially not to a card I specifically asked to not be used. I would like that charge to be voided please.
-----------------
--acunett-------
That is not possible. You mentioned on October 20th you would use a different card to pay. Thus, we voided the charge. Out of our good will we waited for you to update you card and pay for the server. You never did. We contacted you on several occasions, but you chose to ignore us instead of informing us to cancel the server. Your account became delinquent all the while we were being billed by our upstream providers. Bottom line is, you
never cancelled. Instead you falsely led us to believe you were going to pay for the server. Your server was finally shut off yesterday after being overdue for over 1 month. We have all records showing the communication between you and us, and also evidence that the server has been online for this duration.
". I am going to change the card but do not have the information available right now. I also can't find a way to get the old card out of the system. I will update Monday the 22nd (invoice is due the 25th). Thank you"
The only thing I can do for you, is to refund 100% of the management portion, and 20% of the monthly fee of the server itself.
You never cancelled your backup account but I have done so for you so that you do not get rebilled again.[/quote]
-----------------
--me---------
I apologize for the confusion. Initially we were going to switch
credit cards due to an ownership change, but the new ownership decided to go with another server company that they had worked with in the past. In the confusion of the change I now realize no one sent a communication to you saying to cancel the server. However when we saw the final suspend notice we assumed that since the account had lapsed we would not be billed (ie you were canceling the account) as was stated in the email dated Nov 1st ("If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate the server.").
The reason the suspension notices were not responded to is that this email address is no longer used for the company. By the time this account was checked the suspension notices were already delivered along with the email quoted above saying the server would be terminated.
I understand the confusion and I do apologize for someone not
explicitly that the account should be canceled. However, I am not sure how I feel about someone saying the server will be terminated then billing for that service again a few weeks later. I appreciate your offer to refund the management portion and 20% of the monthly fee. To determine if this is fair I may post this on webhostingtalk.com. (Keep in mind that is not supposed to be
threatening. I am genuinely curious about the situation and would like input from others with more experience. Our company has been satisfied with your service.)
------------The client has been quite courteous to us with his further correspondence. I had felt at the time that our good-will had been abused, however judging from this explanation it appears that it was not intentional.Just to add to the situation. The client's card had already been charged for the next month of service. When we received the request to bill a different card, we issued a refund for that charge, and waited for the client to pay with a different card.Follow up emails were sent to the client asking for either an update or an explanation. Meanwhile, our billing system also sent out automated suspension warnings. (these are not linked to actually suspending the server)Finally, a week after his due date we sent a final warning as the client posted above. I do admit this message "If payment is not sent within 24 hours we will be forced to terminate the server." is somewhat ambiguous. It was not clearly imparted whether we would terminate the server immediately, or at the billing cycle.Take into consideration that this server had already been a week delinquent at that point, and we had been charged by our providers for this next month. We really could do nothing at that point, and leaving the server up until the end of the month and hoping that the client will pay would not cost us any more than we had already lost.At this point, we re-charged the original invoice for the delinquent fee (as opposed to sending this to collection, etc). I feel there is no doubt we did have a right to do that, since no cancellation request was ever submitted. This would just be like charging any other client every month.I will leave it up to WHT to decide whether in this situation a full 100% refund for services is appropriate, or whether a full 100% refund for management services + 20% refund for the dedicated server is appropriate in this situation.As this client has been a loyal customer for 2 years, I personally do not mind either which way. However, please do base your decision on principal, and not some other reason. (such as business bad, customer good
)Just to add to the situation. The client's card had already been charged for the next month of service. When we received the request to bill a different card, we issued a refund for that charge, and waited for the client to pay with a different card.---------------I'm not sure if that is 100% correct but it may be. I believe I made the request when the invoice was received but before the credit card was actually charged. I will have to check and see if that is the case or not though.Either way it doesn't really affect the issue at hand I suppose.---"Follow up emails were sent to the client asking for either an update or an explanation."---I think this might be misleading. There were suspension notices but at no time did anyone ask for an explanation. An update was asked for in the first email and that is of course my mistake.Actually I want to double check both on the above to make sure I am being accurate.In Regards to the charge:01594646593 9238 Voided 20-Oct-2007 21:48:06 Sxxx, Cxxx A XXXXxxxx USD 0.00 21-Oct-2007 17:38:41 USD 0.00I worded my statement incorrectly. Your card was indeed charged by authorize.net, but I went in an voided it before the charge settled.--------------In regards to being "misleading":What you are referring to are the "Meanwhile, our billing system also sent out automated suspension warnings. " that I mentioned.The automated suspension warnings are not the same as the email messages that I personally sent to you. I recall the situation quite clearly. It was a weekend when I answered your email. You told us that on monday you would pay with a different card. Monday came and went and you did not pay. I also remember emailing you a reminder that you could login at any time to pay the invoice in case you had forgotten.Yes, the card was billed and you voided the card, I was just saying I think I sent in the ticket/email asking for the card to be changed before the charge went through. Either way you did refund the charge promptly.The misleading part was just that you said follow up emails were sent asking for either an update or an explanation.In response to the ticket I opened about the card you said "It just billed it today. I have voided the charge and reissued the invoice. When you install the new card, make sur eyou pay manually by going to My Finances -> invoices" in an email dated on the 20th (a saturday). The next email I got from you was on the 1st telling me the server was to be terminated. I also remember the situation quite clearly and have all the email correspondences in my gmail account. In other words, I don't see where you asked for an explanation or update about the situation. The only reason that is pertinent is that if, when i had checked the email and seen the suspension notices, I had also seen an email sent by you asking for an explanation, I would have written an email right then telling you the situation. I just thought since you said the server would be terminated that it was a done deal. It didn't seem appropriate to write an email at that point apologizing for not paying the old invoice."I also remember emailing you a reminder that you could login at any time to pay the invoice in case you had forgotten."I do not remember this and I have thoroughly looked through the gmail account for such an email. Unless you sent this from a different email account that I have missed I think you are mistaken.EDIT -- I was wrong, I did get an email on the 23rd saying "Just to let you know the amex charge was voided, so you can login to pay the invoice with a different card at any time."