Hey guys.... just basically trying to understand how 3rd party management works exactly.
I've always had servers that were managed by the host themselves... but am now seriously considering using 3rd party management (such as PSM)... mainly because it's a lot cheaper.
However... I was wondering how it works exactly? If your server is based in once place & the management company is based somewhere else.... how exactly do they manage it? I mean..... I'm sure they can install tools & such & such via the web & all..... but what about problems that actually require them to be in the datacenter where the server is based?
So the moral to the story is.... wouldn't server management by the host themselves always be better?There will be times when something requires being physically at the server, but not very often. With 3rd party management, like PSM, they can always contact the datacenter if it's ever needed.
In the 4 years since I got my first server, I've only required the datacenter to be there once. That was in my first month because I went and did some stuff in shell, including deleting the hard drive.
:crying: (no it wasn't intentional)Ok.. thanks for your input! I on the other hand will say I am very disappointed with PSM (Platinum Server Management). I have been with them since they were Fast Server Management, and they just seem to be consistantly getting worse.I have had two servers that I had them managing become compromised and had tickets go on for many days without resolve. My recent compromise that I experienced several days ago still has a ticket open with PSM. I have clearly stated that a new program was installed by the intruder and they ignored even answering that question the entire first 24hrs of the ticket, then responded so slowly to things that I had to go into the server myself and lock down SSH.The ticket was opened on the 23rd and they have only logged into the server once to run rkhunter and check a few things (while ignoring the new program I told them about) then tell me there is no trace of this intrusion. By the way I found out about the intrusion by an automated bash shell script that notifies us when root logs in. I had my doubts about PSM being able to find intrusion on servers after our previous intrusion with a machine they managed for well over a year close to two now. So with this new script we could in fact see an intrusion around the time it takes place by unauthorized logins.PSM knows about the script and we gave them the login details showing a compromise had in fact taken place and yet they have responded this poorly and in my opinion made multiple excuses to delay doing any work to the box.They haven't even responded to our ticket for over 36 hours now. I thought they were great too until I started really watching the servers and seeing their responses when actual problems arose.I would only recommend them to my competitors that I truely dislike! This of course is all a matter of my opinion, but I would love to hear what others have to say.By the way their site has been down now for well over an hour that I am aware of! ( I have checked the site from multiple locations across the US including via proxy).I on the other hand will say I am very disappointed with PSM (Platinum Server Management). I have been with them since they were Fast Server Management, and they just seem to be consistantly getting worse.
I have had two servers that I had them managing become compromised and had tickets go on for many days without resolve. My recent compromise that I experienced several days ago still has a ticket open with PSM. I have clearly stated that a new program was installed by the intruder and they ignored even answering that question the entire first 24hrs of the ticket, then responded so slowly to things that I had to go into the server myself and lock down SSH.
The ticket was opened on the 23rd and they have only logged into the server once to run rkhunter and check a few things (while ignoring the new program I told them about) then tell me there is no trace of this intrusion.
By the way I found out about the intrusion by an automated bash shell script that notifies us when root logs in. I had my doubts about PSM being able to find intrusion on servers after our previous intrusion with a machine they managed for well over a year close to two now. So with this new script we could in fact see an intrusion around the time it takes place by unauthorized logins.
PSM knows about the script and we gave them the login details showing a compromise had in fact taken place and yet they have responded this poorly and in my opinion made multiple excuses to delay doing any work to the box.
They haven't even responded to our ticket for over 36 hours now. I thought they were great too until I started really watching the servers and seeing their responses when actual problems arose.
I would only recommend them to my competitors that I truely dislike! This of course is all a matter of my opinion, but I would love to hear what others have to say.
By the way their site has been down now for well over an hour that I am aware of! ( I have checked the site from multiple locations across the US including via proxy).A great alternative to PSM would be jonesolutions. If you're thinking about someone similar to PSM in service/price.
Lord knows he's alot nicer, that's for sure.A great alternative to PSM would be jonesolutions. If you're thinking about someone similar to PSM in service/price.
Lord knows he's alot nicer, that's for sure.
Thanks for mentioning them I'll look them over!guys, the original question was 3rd party or hoster for management, not that PSM or FSM does not do a good jobthe hoster can do all things needed for a server and generally you feel better knowing there is only one pair of hands there. they can do reboot, reset, get the drives out.. all things when you do have the server near you.a 3rd party management company is cheaper but you but must be carefull, most of them have level of management so take your pick. dont expect the world for a dime! ok, you can expect it but you wont get it so you'll be here crying about them sooner or later.most of DataCenters offer KVM over IP (or another solution) so basically you have access at the server's keyboard and screen - with this you can fix some ugly problems if ever needed.good luck. and again, we all are looking for better prices but dont expect the world for a dime!So the moral to the story is.... wouldn't server management by the host themselves always be better?
Well, always is a big word. And honestly, I don't know this issue.
But generally speaking, it seems any time you have 2 vendors involved, finger pointing back and forth between the 2 vendors very often results in the problem winding up back in your lap. It seems it might be worth paying somewhat more to avoid that.I have contact jonesolutions and admin-ahead.com, both of them replied me in a timely manner. It is hard to make my mind up.my recommendation would be for admin-ahead.com. they are some great guys!Have used openhills.com service two weeks ago.Good things: cheap (price they offered my by e-mail lower then on site), accept paypal (good for me), took payment after work was done (actually my friend is regular customer, may be because of this), after they made my scripts working, they describe all they have done, as i was said - they will fix problem even if it is need to patch sources.Bad: can't find any review of these guys. They were recomended to me by my friend. As he said these guys worked by e-mail for years and only some time ago made a site. Have somebody use this service too?Greetings:
Just like the definition of "fully managed" or "full management" or similar words can vary based on each party (provider and customer), how, what, when, etc. varies based on the 3rd party management provider.
It is always good to discuss your needs and expectations up front prior to signing any contract.
Thank you.It is always good to discuss your needs and expectations up front prior to signing any contract.
Yes, that's very important. However I had very bad experience with a server management company that told me they would take care of everything ... Also ask if the server management company really will take care of you 24 h / day, the company I chose was only available 8 hours a day , the rest of the day I got "Thanks for your ticket, it will be worked on when our technicians are in office ..."
But there are so much posts here on WHT about server management companys , so you'll be able to find the right company for the budget you'll like to spend.Or possibly consider a company that offers fully managed servers, like httpme.com (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://httpme.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19514">http://httpme.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19514</a><!-- m -->).
I think it boils down to what kind of "work" you want to do yourself. Do you want to manage a bunch of technicians? Do you want to pay $x to a company for the server lease and then $y to another company to manage the server.. and deal with the crossfire when one blames the other for some problem while your own customers are screaming at you?
I think it is very common for company's here to lease a server from some cheapo datacenter and then also hire a different managment company to manage the server. But then we have many threads where these people complain about such and such company that didn't actually do the management, or failed expectations, etc...
I think if you hire a company like Dynamic Net (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wemanageservers.com/server_management/server_management.html">http://www.wemanageservers.com/server_m ... ement.html</a><!-- m -->) you are much more likely to be happy then by hiring "bigjoesmanagement" or some other low-budget company where they don't even bother to clarify what "managed" means.
Companies like DynamicNet and HTTPme.com cost a lot more to hire them to manage your servers, and there is a reason why.
Good luck!3rd Party Management - Very much baced on WHO you use if you get a good deal or not. About 2 years ago you would pay $150 for a solution you can get for $50 now. Just be cairfull you find a company with feedback and not a teen offering everything for $20Greetings:
The one thing to be careful about is that human beings are not like hardware.
Hardware comes down in price over time, or you otherwise get more technology for the same price.
Yet, the value of people typically remain constant, if not go up based on inflation and other factors.
Thank you.
I've always had servers that were managed by the host themselves... but am now seriously considering using 3rd party management (such as PSM)... mainly because it's a lot cheaper.
However... I was wondering how it works exactly? If your server is based in once place & the management company is based somewhere else.... how exactly do they manage it? I mean..... I'm sure they can install tools & such & such via the web & all..... but what about problems that actually require them to be in the datacenter where the server is based?
So the moral to the story is.... wouldn't server management by the host themselves always be better?There will be times when something requires being physically at the server, but not very often. With 3rd party management, like PSM, they can always contact the datacenter if it's ever needed.
In the 4 years since I got my first server, I've only required the datacenter to be there once. That was in my first month because I went and did some stuff in shell, including deleting the hard drive.
:crying: (no it wasn't intentional)Ok.. thanks for your input! I on the other hand will say I am very disappointed with PSM (Platinum Server Management). I have been with them since they were Fast Server Management, and they just seem to be consistantly getting worse.I have had two servers that I had them managing become compromised and had tickets go on for many days without resolve. My recent compromise that I experienced several days ago still has a ticket open with PSM. I have clearly stated that a new program was installed by the intruder and they ignored even answering that question the entire first 24hrs of the ticket, then responded so slowly to things that I had to go into the server myself and lock down SSH.The ticket was opened on the 23rd and they have only logged into the server once to run rkhunter and check a few things (while ignoring the new program I told them about) then tell me there is no trace of this intrusion. By the way I found out about the intrusion by an automated bash shell script that notifies us when root logs in. I had my doubts about PSM being able to find intrusion on servers after our previous intrusion with a machine they managed for well over a year close to two now. So with this new script we could in fact see an intrusion around the time it takes place by unauthorized logins.PSM knows about the script and we gave them the login details showing a compromise had in fact taken place and yet they have responded this poorly and in my opinion made multiple excuses to delay doing any work to the box.They haven't even responded to our ticket for over 36 hours now. I thought they were great too until I started really watching the servers and seeing their responses when actual problems arose.I would only recommend them to my competitors that I truely dislike! This of course is all a matter of my opinion, but I would love to hear what others have to say.By the way their site has been down now for well over an hour that I am aware of! ( I have checked the site from multiple locations across the US including via proxy).I on the other hand will say I am very disappointed with PSM (Platinum Server Management). I have been with them since they were Fast Server Management, and they just seem to be consistantly getting worse.I have had two servers that I had them managing become compromised and had tickets go on for many days without resolve. My recent compromise that I experienced several days ago still has a ticket open with PSM. I have clearly stated that a new program was installed by the intruder and they ignored even answering that question the entire first 24hrs of the ticket, then responded so slowly to things that I had to go into the server myself and lock down SSH.
The ticket was opened on the 23rd and they have only logged into the server once to run rkhunter and check a few things (while ignoring the new program I told them about) then tell me there is no trace of this intrusion.
By the way I found out about the intrusion by an automated bash shell script that notifies us when root logs in. I had my doubts about PSM being able to find intrusion on servers after our previous intrusion with a machine they managed for well over a year close to two now. So with this new script we could in fact see an intrusion around the time it takes place by unauthorized logins.
PSM knows about the script and we gave them the login details showing a compromise had in fact taken place and yet they have responded this poorly and in my opinion made multiple excuses to delay doing any work to the box.
They haven't even responded to our ticket for over 36 hours now. I thought they were great too until I started really watching the servers and seeing their responses when actual problems arose.
I would only recommend them to my competitors that I truely dislike! This of course is all a matter of my opinion, but I would love to hear what others have to say.
By the way their site has been down now for well over an hour that I am aware of! ( I have checked the site from multiple locations across the US including via proxy).A great alternative to PSM would be jonesolutions. If you're thinking about someone similar to PSM in service/price.
Lord knows he's alot nicer, that's for sure.A great alternative to PSM would be jonesolutions. If you're thinking about someone similar to PSM in service/price.
Lord knows he's alot nicer, that's for sure.
Thanks for mentioning them I'll look them over!guys, the original question was 3rd party or hoster for management, not that PSM or FSM does not do a good job
the hoster can do all things needed for a server and generally you feel better knowing there is only one pair of hands there. they can do reboot, reset, get the drives out.. all things when you do have the server near you.a 3rd party management company is cheaper but you but must be carefull, most of them have level of management so take your pick. dont expect the world for a dime! ok, you can expect it but you wont get it so you'll be here crying about them sooner or later.most of DataCenters offer KVM over IP (or another solution) so basically you have access at the server's keyboard and screen - with this you can fix some ugly problems if ever needed.good luck. and again, we all are looking for better prices but dont expect the world for a dime!So the moral to the story is.... wouldn't server management by the host themselves always be better?Well, always is a big word. And honestly, I don't know this issue.
But generally speaking, it seems any time you have 2 vendors involved, finger pointing back and forth between the 2 vendors very often results in the problem winding up back in your lap. It seems it might be worth paying somewhat more to avoid that.I have contact jonesolutions and admin-ahead.com, both of them replied me in a timely manner. It is hard to make my mind up.my recommendation would be for admin-ahead.com. they are some great guys!Have used openhills.com service two weeks ago.Good things: cheap (price they offered my by e-mail lower then on site
), accept paypal (good for me), took payment after work was done (actually my friend is regular customer, may be because of this), after they made my scripts working, they describe all they have done, as i was said - they will fix problem even if it is need to patch sources.Bad: can't find any review of these guys. They were recomended to me by my friend. As he said these guys worked by e-mail for years and only some time ago made a site. Have somebody use this service too?Greetings:Just like the definition of "fully managed" or "full management" or similar words can vary based on each party (provider and customer), how, what, when, etc. varies based on the 3rd party management provider.
It is always good to discuss your needs and expectations up front prior to signing any contract.
Thank you.It is always good to discuss your needs and expectations up front prior to signing any contract.
Yes, that's very important. However I had very bad experience with a server management company that told me they would take care of everything ... Also ask if the server management company really will take care of you 24 h / day, the company I chose was only available 8 hours a day , the rest of the day I got "Thanks for your ticket, it will be worked on when our technicians are in office ..."
But there are so much posts here on WHT about server management companys , so you'll be able to find the right company for the budget you'll like to spend.Or possibly consider a company that offers fully managed servers, like httpme.com (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://httpme.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19514">http://httpme.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19514</a><!-- m -->).
I think it boils down to what kind of "work" you want to do yourself. Do you want to manage a bunch of technicians? Do you want to pay $x to a company for the server lease and then $y to another company to manage the server.. and deal with the crossfire when one blames the other for some problem while your own customers are screaming at you?
I think it is very common for company's here to lease a server from some cheapo datacenter and then also hire a different managment company to manage the server. But then we have many threads where these people complain about such and such company that didn't actually do the management, or failed expectations, etc...
I think if you hire a company like Dynamic Net (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wemanageservers.com/server_management/server_management.html">http://www.wemanageservers.com/server_m ... ement.html</a><!-- m -->) you are much more likely to be happy then by hiring "bigjoesmanagement" or some other low-budget company where they don't even bother to clarify what "managed" means.
Companies like DynamicNet and HTTPme.com cost a lot more to hire them to manage your servers, and there is a reason why.
Good luck!3rd Party Management - Very much baced on WHO you use if you get a good deal or not. About 2 years ago you would pay $150 for a solution you can get for $50 now. Just be cairfull you find a company with feedback and not a teen offering everything for $20Greetings:
The one thing to be careful about is that human beings are not like hardware.
Hardware comes down in price over time, or you otherwise get more technology for the same price.
Yet, the value of people typically remain constant, if not go up based on inflation and other factors.
Thank you.